RX-8: talk me out of it. Or into.

"505 - morphine not found" (morphine500) 01/07/2016 at 08:30 • Filed to: Mazda RX-8

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Hello oppo. This is a long shot, because several things need to happen before I end up having to make this decision. However, there’s no harm in browsing the classifieds in advance, is there? So, Mazda RX-8: do, or don’t?

A few things of note.

- I have driven RX-8s before. It was a long time ago, when it was new, but I have, and I remember being overwhelmed by how cool these cars were, and how great the driving experience was

- Whatever I buy will see usage. Not necessarily daily, but i won’t put it away for the winter either. So it has to stand up to being driven hard on switchbacks, to snow-drift sessions, and the occasional track incursion too.

- Yes it will munch gas, i know, and I can get over that. Whatever I buy as a hobby vehicle, will munch gas, as I’m not the brown-diesel-wagon type.

- 4 seats is a big plus, as it enables me to ferry the kids to school in it. Whatever i buy will have four or five seats.

- Most importantly: it has alternatives. I’m giving most thought to the notion of an E36 coupé (325i or 328i) but I’m not alien to the idea of a much older vehicle, say a Volvo 242. The crux is that I’m not going to spend much more than the equivalent of $3.500-4.000 so whatever I buy will not be from the top end of the respective types’ market.

OK, enough talk from me, now let’s hear from you, current or previous RX-8 owners. Which power level to go for? Is there LSD in the Challenge, or only in the Revolution? How many miles does an engine take before a rebuild / change, and what are the signs of that being imminent? Does it rust like the rest of the Mazda line-up of this vintage?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 08:42

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I’m assuming you’ve already run over the logistics of having a dedicated engine stand for your spare and all that.

DoYouEvenShift > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2016 at 08:48

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Arent those engines tiny? You could probably store one in your sock drawer.

KatzManDu > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 08:50

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There was a really awesome write-up on the RX-8 here a few months back. Basically, beware engine compression. For a super discount buy a spare junkyard engine for cheap and rebuild it yourself so it’s ready to go when you need it.

I would have probably gone for one for me here in the Belgium, but because they eat fuel the gCO2/km tax (ecomalus or carbon tax) is almost as much as the car.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DoYouEvenShift 01/07/2016 at 08:52

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I didn’t say it had to be much of an engine stand. Also, I thought rotary guys liked to put their masochism on display.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 08:52

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Rotaries need to be driven hard, that’s a chunk of the reliability issues right there. They have carbon buildup problems, and revving them out on an as driven basic is good. They need Italian tune ups often.

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 08:53

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Get and FC RX7 instead. All I can tell you. Or a SA22C/FB, but I think you guys don’t have them with 4 seats in the states...

Also if you get blue smoke out of the exhaust, you can welcome an engine rebuild. As for the cars and what rotary to avoid, it depends on how the car was taken care off really. A well taken care off rotary will last 150.000 miles without any problem. If it’s not taken care off, it can die in 10.000 miles.

Don’t go over 3000 rpm until the engine is up to temp. Change oil every 2 to 3000 miles. More often if you track the car. Oh yeah and don’t go over 3000 rpm if the engine is not warm :)

If you don this, the engine will last very long.

505 - morphine not found > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2016 at 09:00

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this whole thread is gold. I haven’t thought of that, but guess what, i’m completely ok with having a rotary on my desk in the living room. my wife though... if she’s not, then i’m totally having that baby at my workplace.

505 - morphine not found > Flavien Vidal 01/07/2016 at 09:07

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I’m not in the States, Europe it is. My reasons for the RX-8 is availability really, and the hope i don’t have to work the body, only the mechanical parts. Also, winter driving: even if the body would be straight on an FB or FC, it would surely go downhill after I take it for a few spins in the snow. Or what do you think?

Porsche was my first word > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:10

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I owned a RX-8 with the bigger mill wich was rated at 231 PS (just a few hp less) and 6 speed manual. Never let me down. Got up to 21 mpg when hooning it on the backroads. City and Autobahn (I’m german) it was more like 14-ish. Consumed no oil.

Own a E46 right now.

The Rotary as well as the BMW I6 produce nearly now vibration. The noise in the Mazda is a lot louder though, sounds like a chainsaw going wild. Love it or hate it. If you wanna go fast you need to rev the hell out of the Rotary (up to 9,500), the BMW I6 likes 3,000 and above.

The Mazda is overall the sportier vehicle. Perfect balance, lightweight, precise steering, nimble, loose rear end but very controlable. Still good ride comfort.

Loved the suicide doors, very easy access to the backseats especially if you need to fix the kid in it’s seat.

The E46 is the better long distance driver,particulary because it’s way quieter.

If it’s not the daily DD and you focus a bit more on track an backroads you’ll have more fun with the RX-8.

Clarkson was fond of the RX-8 too

Mine looked exactly the same.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Flavien Vidal 01/07/2016 at 09:13

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Oh, how I would love an FC in great shape...

505 - morphine not found > Porsche was my first word 01/07/2016 at 09:13

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You’re making it way too easy :-) And being Hungarian, I have a good chance of buying a German RX-8, if it ever comes to that. Thanks for the input!

DoYouEvenShift > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:15

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You do what you gotta do man. Im actually in the process of turning our spare bedroom into an engine tear down and rebuild room for the engine in one of my Camaros. My 2 car garage is tight on work space, so that was a nogo. It was even my wifes idea lol, didnt even cross my mind.

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:15

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No, driving mine myself in the snow at low temperatures reguraly... Even doing ice driving days with it so :)

When starting it cold, if it’s like -5 degrees outside, I let it warm up for at least 5 minutes without even touching the gas pedal though. EVERY SINGLE TIME. If something can kill your engine, it’s the absusive cold start, let alone at this kind of temperature. Don’t fuck up with this or it will bite you :)

RX7 are much easier to work on, this is why I think it’s better than a more modern RX8. Also a rotary rebuild is actually very easy. The hardest time is the first time :)

I know people who can rebuild a rotary in 3 hours.

Porsche was my first word > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:17

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You’re welcome!

The RX-8 easy to love. Won’t go for the smaller mill. It makes nearly no difference in price and mileage.

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:18

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BTW, myself, an FC RX7 and a frozen lake with studless tires :)

It’s A LOT of fun

505 - morphine not found > Flavien Vidal 01/07/2016 at 09:22

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I LOVE YOU where is that though? I need more snow in my life, and it’s just missing from our weather these years....

they-will-know-my-velocity > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:23

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It’s a (gorgeous) Japanese sports car with suicide doors. The concept is solid. The car is fun and can be tuned to be a fast (and kinda weird) car. I like everything about the RX-8 except the questions I have about the engine.

If you can square this with your mechanical god then do so. Probably best to plan on an engine rebuild at some point from what I’ve read. However I don’t know that this is as big of a project as say, rebuilding an LS1 or something. I suppose it could be simpler, if a bit alien at first.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:27

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If I remember correctly, if your kids have legs it might be an issue in the back seat of this one.

Also, what’s your annual maintenance budget?

3 Million Dollars?

Not enough.

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:27

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Love you too... I guess :)

It’s near Nagano in Japan. Married to a Japanese and living in Japan now. I’m french though (and my grand father (now dead) used to drive a 305 Diesel that we still ahve in the family and that I drive regulary for fun (reference to your 505 screen name :)).

Don’t worry much about the engine itself. Just take care of it like it’s on life support at all time. But being overly cautious, doing litteraly nothing important but still “making sure it’s fine” (ie, checking oil level everyday, waiting 5 minutes idling before driving if it’s a bit cold, changing oil every 2000 miles...etc), you will see that it’s actually a fairly reliable car.

One thinkg can be annoying though. It eats alternator/accessory belt like nothing else. So keep a few spare ones with you just in case

Nothing > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:35

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I really liked mine, it was my DD for a couple of years. I had transmissions issues that were taken care of under warranty (after a lengthy battle). No engine issues, people that say there are haven’t owned one. Sold mine when our twins were born. I was just talking to a buddy last night that I would get another one in a heartbeat. I also didn’t have any rust issues, but I live in Colorado, which is dry and road salt free. Mine was a 2004.

505 - morphine not found > Flavien Vidal 01/07/2016 at 09:36

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Cheers. And yes that screen names means Peugeot. This one was last year, but I was out doing the same twice this week, as we finally have some snow here....

Yesterday I ended up with a rear-left puncture, so i had the pleasure of fitting my shitty spare wheel (summer tire!) at 1AM in the snow... with a stray dog looking on intently.

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 09:39

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haha, the 505 is a great car! I wouldn’t mind owning one myself, but it would have to be a V6 though :)

505 - morphine not found > Flavien Vidal 01/07/2016 at 09:47

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yeah, I like it too, although I have mine for 3,5 year now, and there wasn’t aa single minute everything worked as I liked it to. But that’s my fault for buying a banger :-)

There’s a nice V6 for sale in Holland , but I think the front suspension is different than on other 505s, so you might want to reconsider that, and go for the Turbo instead :-)

AkursedX > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 10:47

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I daily-drive an RX-8 from spring through fall. I wish I had my article on whether you should buy an RX-8 completed as I think it would really help your decision-making, but I’m probably not going to have it finished until next Monday. Anyways, I love my RX-8 more than anything I have owned. I also own a ‘16 STi, and choose my RX-8 over it.

I also have a 3, and a 5-year old plus I’m 6’3” 250lbs and it hauls the kids around just fine.

If you can’t wait for my article, I at least suggest reading through http://www.rx8help.com/home/overview.… This site has a TON of info and is a great resource.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:08

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The only things that are going to be coming “out of it” are apex seals.

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:17

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Do it! You might even not regret it.

I had a first one that was perfect. 2004, 85.000km, black on red, well maintained, perfect interior and exterior, started up without problems every time (except when flooded). It was the 190hp 5 speed though. I loved it, and crashed it 2 months in, badly.

I bought a second one as soon as I could walk again. 2004, 65.000km, red on red, some dents and scratches, and a worn out engine. It had been abused and not-so-well maintained. I drove it until the clutch began slipping under heavy acceleration. I then rebuilt the engine, street ported it, put a Sohn adapter on it, new ignition, and an Exedy stage 1 HD clutch. The transmission died 400km later. I have not had any trouble with it since.

I also know a guy who sold his with 130.000km with the original engine, no rebuild, and no issues.

The engine is reliable if you take good care of it: respect the warm up / cool down, do regular oil changes, get quality oil and don’t forget to check the oil level regularly. Otherwise, it can die quickly.

Rust is not an issue. But there are some usual problems: water in the taillights, a faulty level sensor in the cooling system (requires a new expansion tank, or you just unplug it). Spark plus, leads and coils can wear out pretty quickly, which can bring more damage.

I consider selling it every now and then, take it for a ride, and remember that I am hooked on.

Also: a peugeot 505 (GTD in my case) and a RX-8 make a great 2 car garage.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:21

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Is ~$4k anywhere near enough to buy a running Rx8 in your area? I would think a decently sorted one would fetch at least $10k but I am not up to date on my RX8 pricing.

505 - morphine not found > AkursedX 01/07/2016 at 11:27

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I absolutely can wait for you article, if this happens, (and I wish it would), it will happen months down the road. So please post a link here, when you’re finished, cheers

505 - morphine not found > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/07/2016 at 11:29

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I thought so too, but just checked the local classifieds, and there seem to be a few examples worthy of at least checking out in that ballpark. A lot of them more expensive though.

AkursedX > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:31

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Will do!

96Formula6spd > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:41

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I love them. After driving many of them I want one. The engine issue is there but just abuse it and redline it once and a while and its good. That is how the engine gets oil. If my Firebird would sell there are some sweet $2200 ones laying around. Heck even 6spd rollers for $1000. My end goal....LS swap. The rotary is fun and pretty easy to work on. But in the end still want a V8 car that would get better economy. My vote do it.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 11:44

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Isnt that indicative of those cheapo ones being problem cars? Especially with a finicky rotary engine. Unless you are going into it with the intention of doing a rebuild (could be a good route if you can do the work)

505 - morphine not found > Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction 01/07/2016 at 11:44

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Sadly, I don’t think the Peugeot and a future RX-8 will share time in my life, but I see your point, and thanks for the in-depths reply!

Can I ask, how much that extensive rebuilt cost on your second engine?

505 - morphine not found > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/07/2016 at 11:52

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Scrolling through the comments here, it seems engine problems are 100% caused or in deed avoided by user behavior. And as I cannot vouch for the previous owner of even the nicest example, the only two routes are buying one with a 0km fresh engine, or simply factoring in an engine rebuild. And in the second case, cheap examples with iffy engines can turn out to be just as good financially. Note, I wrote “can” and not “will”.......

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 13:18

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Well some characters are a little bit more trustworthy than others. I wish everyone would keep a log book with mileage and dates for every repair and receipts. Ive been doing that just so I know what maintenance intervals I have been following but it would make car buying so much easier.

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/07/2016 at 14:46

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You can fit 1,75m adults one behind another rather comfortable (as far as comfortable coupés go)

Also, maintenance isn’t that expensive, sure, it’s not the ideal DD, but it’s not worse than another sports car

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction 01/07/2016 at 14:53

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That’s impressive on the seating.

I think you’re off the mark on maintenance. I don’t mean oil changes or brakes.

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 15:03

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I got most of the parts from atkins rotary:
Rebuild kit 445$
Cryogenically treated apex seals 249$
Exedy stage 1 HD clutch 410$
Street porting templates 100$
Shipping from USA 110$
Import tax to France ~300$ from memory

Sohn adapter + shipping and import tax ~150€ from memory

Used gearbox 400€ (Germany)

I paid 7000€ for the car in july 2014 (way too much in hindsight)

The rotors and rotor housings were OK so I could reuse them, I also took the best parts of both engines (rotors and housings are the same in both engines). Rebuilding it was quite easy and took me about 3 days of chilled work, with a little help from my father (important detail: my father has been an independant mechanic for 30 years, we have a full equiped workshop).

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2016 at 15:15

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I think the masochist part is quite true, I took the passenger seat from the remainings from my first RX-8 ans use it as a chair in my living room. it’s not the comfiest chair, but it’s got great side support.

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > Porsche was my first word 01/07/2016 at 15:18

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Clarkson is right about it, it is the best car, until you hit a wet road, where it will try to kill you, god I love this car :)

gergey - Wishes vette was Datsun > 505 - morphine not found 01/07/2016 at 19:57

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My advice is that if you’re going to buy one, is to get one with blown seals / no compression and get it rebuilt right at the start. Then if you don’t abuse it you’ll have a good 80k miles of fun

505 - morphine not found > AkursedX 03/03/2016 at 07:13

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Hey, read your article, and it’s great, thanks! Exactly the to-the-point, description based on firsthand experience that I needed. Cheers!

AkursedX > 505 - morphine not found 03/03/2016 at 08:30

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Awesome! I tries to find this post the other night, but I couldn’t find where it was. (I should have bookmarked it). Anyways, I really hope it helps you with your decision!

505 - morphine not found > AkursedX 03/03/2016 at 17:37

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well, i’m not an inch closer to that, but here’s hoping!